eric
Full Member
Posts: 112
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Post by eric on Sept 13, 2023 15:25:34 GMT
Good day all,
When i was first trained on cleaning/disinfection i was instructed to clean with low pH first, then high pH, then disinfect. This was explained to me because the metals imbedded in the membrane could be caused to oxidize into the membrane if the high was done first...... no documentation, just what i was instructed to do.
I have read some things lately that there is a better resolution for the membranes to clean with high first, then low, then disinfect.
Which way are you cleaning, if you are, and do you have any documentation?
Its hard to change a routine thats been done for over 10 years but i am open to the change if it will clean the membranes better.
Always willing to learn.
Thank you for your help and time,
Eric
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Post by dave74 on Sept 13, 2023 15:42:54 GMT
We must have had the same trainer. I remember low, then high for exactly the reason you stated. I can't prove it.
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Post by Biohelp on Sept 13, 2023 19:40:14 GMT
same here low, high & disinfect.
if no actual low pH cleaner/solution is available, disinfect (ex. Minncare is low pH), high and then disinfect again.
I only clean if necessary, ymmv.
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stuff
Full Member
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Posts: 231
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Post by stuff on Sept 13, 2023 19:57:19 GMT
My 23G instruction book says low then High followed by a disinfect
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Sept 13, 2023 21:50:48 GMT
IMHO, frequent cleaning shortens the life of the membranes. I personally don't think membranes should be cleaned unless the product flow is decreased.
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 227
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Post by joey on Sept 18, 2023 11:49:26 GMT
Ameriwater systems want you to do high pH low pH then disinfect.
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Post by dave74 on Sept 18, 2023 14:01:12 GMT
I attended a one day class led by Jim Baker of Ameriwater. I seem to recall he said he recommended high then low pH cleaning. I also seem to recall that he put the carbon tanks before the softener. The system I used was installed by GE(at the time). They put the softener first, followed by carbon tanks and recommended low and then high pH cleaning. Jim had reasons for his recommendations. I just can't remember what they were.
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Post by Admin on Sept 18, 2023 14:11:25 GMT
Is the softener being after the carbons maybe related to putting “more of a load” on the softener when the carbons backwash?
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Sept 18, 2023 14:28:03 GMT
Is the softener being after the carbons maybe related to putting “more of a load” on the softener when the carbons backwash? If the softener is after the carbons, no water will flow through the softener when the carbons backwash. The softener can be before or after the carbons but I think most people have them before. There are pro's and con's to each configuration. |
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Post by dave74 on Sept 18, 2023 16:56:12 GMT
Is the softener being after the carbons maybe related to putting “more of a load” on the softener when the carbons backwash? If the softener is after the carbons, no water will flow through the softener when the carbons backwash. The softener can be before or after the carbons but I think most people have them before. There are pro's and con's to each configuration. I seem to recall that Jim said chlorine shortened the life of softener resin. He added that there were pro and cons, but carbons first is the way he did things. |
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Sept 18, 2023 18:11:31 GMT
If the softener is after the carbons, no water will flow through the softener when the carbons backwash. The softener can be before or after the carbons but I think most people have them before. There are pro's and con's to each configuration. I seem to recall that Jim said chlorine shortened the life of softener resin. He added that there were pro and cons, but carbons first is the way he did things. I've always been under that impression also. That said, we typically get 10+ years out of the resin so at least for us that isn't a concern. The removal of the chlorine by having the carbon first is a con since the softener would then be a reservoir for bacterial growth coming primarily from the 2nd carbon tank. Bottom line is, I don't think there's a "best" way. |
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 227
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Post by joey on Sept 20, 2023 15:14:36 GMT
If the softener is after the carbons, no water will flow through the softener when the carbons backwash. The softener can be before or after the carbons but I think most people have them before. There are pro's and con's to each configuration. I seem to recall that Jim said chlorine shortened the life of softener resin. He added that there were pro and cons, but carbons first is the way he did things. The new Ameriwater systems use a PT401 injector, post carbons, instead of the traditional softener with the resin tank and the salt bin. You only have to set it and keep it full. You still unplug it if you run DI. |
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Post by bcjammerx on Sept 22, 2023 7:15:43 GMT
usually just do a low ph and disinfect. high ph we reserve for if the *corrected* low doesn't work fully, our water contaminants usually only require high ph cleaning but that's location specific, though at my previous places we only did low ph and disinfect too (Tx and La). You can check output before cleaning, do a low, check output again and use that to determine if the low restored output or if a high is needed.
usually we do this once a month, flow goes from 2000 ml/min to 500 ml/min, 20" carbon filters are replaced too (their delta pressure goes from 0 to 12+ psi as well)...we have baaaaad water, oddly the carbons are only replaced for elevated delta presssure, never for breakthrough. in longview tx, we didn't have output problems but we were replacing carbons very frequently do to breakthrough at the primary. different places have different issues.
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Post by dave74 on Sept 22, 2023 12:49:31 GMT
usually just do a low ph and disinfect. high ph we reserve for if the high doesn't work fully, our water contaminants usually only require high ph cleaning but that's location specific, though at my previous places we only did low ph and disinfect too (Tx and La). You can check output before cleaning, do a low, check output again and use that to determine if the low restored output or if a high is needed. usually we do this once a month, flow goes from 2000 ml/min to 500 ml/min, 20" carbon filters are replaced too (their delta pressure goes from 0 to 12+ psi as well)...we have baaaaad water, oddly the carbons are only replaced for elevated delta presssure, never for breakthrough. in longview tx, we didn't have output problems but we were replacing carbons very frequently do to breakthrough at the primary. different places have different issues. Do you have a typo in the first line? 2,000 to 500 seems extreme. |
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Post by bcjammerx on Sept 26, 2023 3:41:03 GMT
usually just do a low ph and disinfect. high ph we reserve for if the high doesn't work fully, our water contaminants usually only require high ph cleaning but that's location specific, though at my previous places we only did low ph and disinfect too (Tx and La). You can check output before cleaning, do a low, check output again and use that to determine if the low restored output or if a high is needed. usually we do this once a month, flow goes from 2000 ml/min to 500 ml/min, 20" carbon filters are replaced too (their delta pressure goes from 0 to 12+ psi as well)...we have baaaaad water, oddly the carbons are only replaced for elevated delta presssure, never for breakthrough. in longview tx, we didn't have output problems but we were replacing carbons very frequently do to breakthrough at the primary. different places have different issues. Do you have a typo in the first line? 2,000 to 500 seems extreme. I do have a typo! we reserve the high for if the low doesn't work It is extreme, but our water is really bad. we have a .45 carbon, 5 micron prefilter, and 2 20" 5 micron carbons. Had to replace two membranes on an aquaboss and add pretreatment due to the water quality too, can't get an answer on if the city dumped chemicals or not but we have high fluoride levels also. Usually we do a cleaning at 900 ml/min and it goes up to 2000 or close to it. our newer portables though put out 2000 ml/min and I've seen a couple go from 500 to 2000 after a cleaning, just really bad water |
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