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Post by kts on Apr 28, 2023 19:14:09 GMT
I know you guys are getting sick of me but I ran into another temp problem, I continue to get a temp test failure ok so I go check my ev pressure its fine I check heater ohm it out it is a version 8 machine I get 8 ohms on the heater. I switch it out anyway. I go to calibrate the temp and i cant get it to rise above 30. so i think to myself well it could possibly be a SMPS so I change it out still the same problem the temp will not raise above 30 trying to Cal it. any help will be appreciated.
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Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2023 19:16:42 GMT
The only thing it’s going to be would be f5 or f6 or the heater.
If the heater was turned on in tsm with no water in the tank it may have burned out, but In tsm it should come up with you turning it on. Nothing is stopping it
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Post by kts on Apr 28, 2023 19:43:06 GMT
I have changed both fuses that was one of the first things I did just now checking voltages to the heater at 100% I got 123v to one side and only 2.8 v to the other side. Ground to brown is how I was measuring, so I guess Ill try another heater. The only thing it’s going to be would be f5 or f6 or the heater. If the heater was turned on in tsm with no water in the tank it may have burned out, but In tsm it should come up with you turning it on. Nothing is stopping it |
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Post by kts on Jun 15, 2023 12:44:26 GMT
now this dang machine the temp is fine in test mode I ran a treatment all good. As soon as they put a pt on this machine the temp drops to 33. I recalibrated temp yesterday to insure that the temp was right and the machine is pulled again for the same reason. Any ideas of what I should look at next?
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Post by Guest68 on Jun 15, 2023 15:00:57 GMT
Ohm out both sides of the heater. It sounds like one side of the heater is out.
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 227
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Post by joey on Jun 15, 2023 16:43:04 GMT
What is your degassing?
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 15, 2023 21:57:46 GMT
<Guest68> Version 8 heaters are three wire, single rod, 1800 watt units. Wires are Brown (L), Blue (N), Yellow/Green (Gnd). <kts> Something you need to be aware about. When calibrating TSE, you must move TSHE from the input of the heater to just after TSE and the insert your test meter after. They must be calibrated together, and then TSHE returned to the input of the heater. If, during operation, TSHE sees a temperature that is higher (defective) than TSE, it will cause the heater to shut off. It thinks the incoming water is hotter than what TSE needs to turn on the heater.
A V8 heater rod is 1 element at 1800 Watts. P = IE or P = (E2) / R. Therefore, R = (E2) / P and (1202) = 14400 /1800 = 8 ohms resistance. That is only between Brown and Blue. Any resistance between Brown and ground or Blue and ground is indicating an internal short. The heater is a resistor which is thyristor controlled. The Blue (N) goes thru F6 to SMPS ground. If you measure a resistor from the voltage feed point to ground, your meter should show the applied voltage to the resistor. So your 123 Volt reading was showing applied voltage. But the neutral side was showing some residual voltage, mainly due to the fuse and possibly circuit resistance. Therefore, that is normal. Good heater.
So why won't temperature go up? TSHE possibly. Flow obstruction to TSE? EP not moving water? RVE not opening/operating? I think you proved your heater is good, F5 and 6 (20 Amp) are good so check out the other stuff and report back what you found.
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Post by kts on Jun 22, 2023 18:28:48 GMT
<Guest68> Version 8 heaters are three wire, single rod, 1800 watt units. Wires are Brown (L), Blue (N), Yellow/Green (Gnd). Thanks I think it is a deair problem unfortunately I only get 2 days a month at this clinic so i don't have a lot of troubleshooting time. last time i was there i was trying to Cal and I noticed a lot of air in the system so I think this might be my problems I will get back to is the next time i am at this clinic thanks for the patients guys. <kts> Something you need to be aware about. When calibrating TSE, you must move TSHE from the input of the heater to just after TSE and the insert your test meter after. They must be calibrated together, and then TSHE returned to the input of the heater. If, during operation, TSHE sees a temperature that is higher (defective) than TSE, it will cause the heater to shut off. It thinks the incoming water is hotter than what TSE needs to turn on the heater.
A V8 heater rod is 1 element at 1800 Watts. P = IE or P = (E2) / R. Therefore, R = (E2) / P and (1202) = 14400 /1800 = 8 ohms resistance. That is only between Brown and Blue. Any resistance between Brown and ground or Blue and ground is indicating an internal short. The heater is a resistor which is thyristor controlled. The Blue (N) goes thru F6 to SMPS ground. If you measure a resistor from the voltage feed point to ground, your meter should show the applied voltage to the resistor. So your 123 Volt reading was showing applied voltage. But the neutral side was showing some residual voltage, mainly due to the fuse and possibly circuit resistance. Therefore, that is normal. Good heater.
So why won't temperature go up? TSHE possibly. Flow obstruction to TSE? EP not moving water? RVE not opening/operating? I think you proved your heater is good, F5 and 6 (20 Amp) are good so check out the other stuff and report back what you found.
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Post by kts on Jun 22, 2023 18:31:38 GMT
Thanks for your patents guys I only get 2 days a month at this clinic so my trouble shooting is limited. I think its a problem with my deair system I noticed a lot of air in the system last time I tried to work on the equipment. I will update as I get there.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 23, 2023 1:07:14 GMT
The degas circuit needs water to create a negative pressure. If the degas pressure goes towards -24 mmHg (approaching zero) it will trigger the following events: the EP pump will stop; the heater will be switched off; the circuit will attempt to restart and create a more negative degas pressure. If the float tells the machine the tank is full, but it isn't, you will see lots of air and little to no pressure. If PE is bad, and incorre3ct pressure could shut it off. If you have old gear pumps (or gear pumps with REV L labels on them) the internal magnets may be defective and not moving water. Replace magnet (rebuild kit) or replace entire pump if more than 15,000 hours on pump.Air leak in circuit. Just remember that the degas is a closed circuit. EP does not send water to FPE. FPE draws water from the 1/3rd side of the upline tank. If there is no water in the 1/3 side, then EP is not providing water water fast enough through the heater to keep the 1/3rd side filled.
Simple degas test after you find the problem. Go to Test 1.10:
Set EP to 2000 rpm. Set RVE to 35-40%. Set heater to 60%. Set FPE to 0. Wait until TSHE reaches about 50 deg. C. Set heater to zero. Check PE pressure on screen. Should be more negative than -500 mmHg. (Note - small changes in RVE will change the reading. It should be close to the value during a treatment). If good, continue.
Set EP to 1500 rpm. Set RVE to 100%. Heater is zero; FPE is zero. Wait till temperature drops to 40 deg. C. PE should now be more negative than -40 mmHg. The more negative the better. If good, continue.
Set EP to zero. Let circuit rest. After one minute, PE should be between 0 to + 30 mmHg.
Hope this helps.
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Post by kts on Jun 23, 2023 14:28:13 GMT
Thanks for this info it really helps me
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