kyle
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by kyle on May 24, 2023 15:45:11 GMT
Hello, I have a machine (9.1B) that says VBCIP test not ok during rinse out disinfection. Anyone experience this issue?
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2023 18:46:31 GMT
Most likely the FPE pump
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jul 27, 2023 15:48:53 GMT
There was no further response to whether FPE resolved this problem. However, let me clarify the disinfection process for =/> 9.1B software. At the end of the Disinfection, the Water Block (Upline Tank) is filled with Citric Acid. The machine will perform two tests: 1. Emptying of the Upline Tank. 2. VBICP test. It will then go into rinse and cool down.
1. The machine will attempt to empty the Water Block (NOTE: Upline tank was the former name used with the Dialogs operating </= SW 8.XX). The path is from the fresh side to VEB (OPEN) to PE to EP to H to DBK (NOTE: VBKO is closed) to the heated water side (top) of the Water Block then the water exits the bottom of the heated water side of the Water Block, to VVB to the DF Block to FPE. But on the outlet side of FPE, the water MUST easily go to drain. Failure to drain can be FPE, VVB, or a failure to move water to drain efficiently.
2. After test 1 is completed, VVBE opens and refills the Water Block with fresh water. Now the VBICP test begins. The path is from the fresh side to VEB (OPEN) to PE to EP to H to DBK/VBKO. At this junction, with VBKO open, the flow will be through RVBO/RVBU then to VBICP (open) and then to the DF Block to FPE.
So if the unit passes the EMPTY test but fails the VBICP test, the problem may not be the FPE pump anymore (cooler temps, free flow, etc.). Since DBK is a branch off the flow, a bad spring or worn disk can bleed water away. Also the empty action is time limited.
Use the above info as a guide to understanding the actions near the end of the disinfect cycle. This is not applicable to 9.1A and below.
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Post by bcjammerx on Jul 29, 2023 10:26:34 GMT
This happened on my 9.12's, oddly the v8's never did it, our 9.1E's only 1000 hrs so this hasn't happened yet...I have had to replaced a blood pump, card reader, clip the zip ties on the monitor wires (screen would shut off if turned, cutting the zip ties fixed that) and another keeps intermittency failing temp test...so they've had their own issues, brand new machine...but I digress/rant, back on topic
I've had one 9.12 do this and it was the fpe pump, easiest pump to get to imo, just replaced the pump body, the motor and magnet were fine. fixed it. I took the tubes the pump off and spun the magnet by hand and it was very weak flow/pressure so obviously the pump. You don't have to take the pump out to do this test, just take the hoses off (remembering/marking which tube goes where) then spin the pump and see how strong the pressure/flow are.
But I had another two 9.12's were the pump didn't seem to be the problem. They would start to get the circulation step in disinfect and would be cycling then shut all the pumps off, I noticed pe pressure wasn't staying negative or it would only go to -10 or -12 when it should be -25 or -35, on these two replacing the pe sensor (and calibration of it thereafter) fixed it. I could have tried just recalibrating the pe sensor first but I had done this on a fourth much earlier and it worked for a bit but pe sensor would not stay negative after a while, so I just replaced a with a new pe sensor. course they tell us in class if you need to recalibrate then just replace something, don't JUST recalibrate...of course for conductivity and temperature I always recalibrate and if it comes back then I replace the part.
I do love, on the patient safety side, how sensitive these machines are...but from a biomed side DAMMIT THESE MACHINES ARE SENSITIVE...and there are soooo many possibilities for a failure. like the vbcip, usually it's a bad pump, but for me it was a bad pe sensor.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jul 30, 2023 0:04:59 GMT
<bcjammerx> One of the MAJOR reasonswhy Germany revised the software process of the disinfection cycle is because people were replacing gear pumps to stop the "VBICP test failed" warning message when they were still good pumps to use. Process wise, the VBICP test was much more complicated, until SW 9.1B came out. Which is a good reason to upgrade to 9.1B because it may save you from needlessly replacing expensive gear pumps.
The process for the VBICP test is:
So as you can see from the above, FPA is just as important as FPE for the 9.12 process. Also, the proper operation of PDA (read that as calibration). So everything was a lot more complicated. And to add more frustration, many complained that they were changing PE because the machine would stop the process, EP would stop and H turned off. All because Degas pressure went more positive than -24 mmHg. SW 9.1B eliminates all of that.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jul 30, 2023 0:21:37 GMT
And that is because 9.12 to 9.1A software monitors PE pressure during the entire disinfection process to insure it stays more negative than -24 mmHg. With 9.1B, the software was changed to check PE pressure at the START of the disinfection process. If less than -24 mmHg, the system had water (H needs water) and the machine would go into recirculation without looking at PE any more. PE reads properly at normal temps and that is all that is required to show that there is water and normal degassing taking place. The entire purpose was to nsure water was present to prevent damage to H.
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