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Post by kts on Jan 12, 2024 16:36:24 GMT
Guys, I have a version 8 machine that is failing blood test during the test the blood pump isnt starting but as soon as it fails the test the blood pump starts rotating again. Any Ideas on what to look at? I changed the blood pump module with the same result.
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Post by Admin on Jan 12, 2024 17:20:09 GMT
Is it failing the Test B.S P Sensor or Testing Blood System?
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jan 13, 2024 19:53:49 GMT
If you check your service manual, where you find the description of the DFS leakage test steps (Chap 3), after that entry are the steps the LLC/LLS perform for other preparation steps. The pressure test for PA/PV/PBE are electronic (32XXX) and must succeed before 33XXX (Blood Side Pressure Retention test) occurs. A first requirement of 3302X is that the "Blood side" must not be stopped. I don't know how familiar you are with the preparation steps, but during some of the early steps, you can see the BP Roller stop. That is because the LLC & LLS use two relays in the SMPS (K3 & K4) to control the VGB & VGD voltages as signals to each other. The 'Blood side must not be stopped' means VGB-24V must be available (you can find VGB & VGD on the left side of the 2nd page of the service overview screen). The second item that MUST happen is the LLC must show 33xxx. The third item is that BPA is STOPPED (LLC 3310x and LLS displays 33000). Next, the SAKV clamp MUST be opened. Now, LLC changes to 3320x, SAKV opens, and the BPA is told to ramp up speed.
Since yours is not turning, look at the previous requirements. NOTE: the relays are replaceable, you do not need to replace the entire SMPS.
NOTE 2: Version 8 machines are now EOL. If parts are not in stock, there will be no back-orders established.
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Post by kts on Jan 19, 2024 14:49:06 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions the next time that I am over there I will put them into place.
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 227
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Post by joey on Jan 19, 2024 15:59:31 GMT
Guys, I have a version 8 machine that is failing blood test during the test the blood pump isnt starting but as soon as it fails the test the blood pump starts rotating again. Any Ideas on what to look at? I changed the blood pump module with the same result. It could be failing before the pump is supposed to spin. When you fire it up see if the Art Ven Pressures shoot up then down during self tests because that happens before the pump spins to build up Venous pressure.
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Post by kts on Jan 22, 2024 14:34:31 GMT
The pressures are all ok its that the pump dosnt start spinning during the test as soon as test fails the pujmp starts spinning Im going to look at those relays and see if that could be the problem
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jan 22, 2024 19:45:38 GMT
<kts> did you read and understand what was previously written? You are concentrating on the BP doesn't spin and then it does spin. But all the parameters leading up to the point where the pump is supposed to start spinning can cause it to NOT SPIN. Some of the earlier self test parameters also use the relays. Are they passing or are the repeating and then passing. That can tell you if your relays are okay or experiencing problems. Each step is important. And each prior step is just as important.
In concert with this, what are the pressures? And you should open the service overview screen to look at LLC/LLS numbers and PA/PV/PBE. Do the supervisor values match the controller values?
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Post by kts on Jan 23, 2024 15:39:56 GMT
Is it failing the Test B.S P Sensor or Testing Blood System This is another one its failing the BS sensor test.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jan 23, 2024 16:24:51 GMT
<kts> so you are failing LLC 32xxx. What is the exact step it is failing at and what are your pressures (PA; PV; PBE)? Details will help us help you.
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Post by kts on Jan 23, 2024 16:51:31 GMT
When it does the BS sensor test the Pv and PA do not increase thus causing the failure
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jan 23, 2024 19:50:09 GMT
When it does the BS sensor test the Pv and PA do not increase thus causing the failure If you would provide the requested information you would probably receive the help you need. The "BS sensor test" may actually be multiple tests all rolled into the single heading. The LLC step will help pinpoint the exact failure.
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 227
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Post by joey on Jan 24, 2024 12:32:08 GMT
If both of them do not shoot up it might be an issue with the communication with the board where the sensors are....maybe look for a loose ribbon cable or it could be a bad board but it has been very rare that I've seen those go down.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jan 24, 2024 14:21:02 GMT
A Version 8 machine does the "Pressure test" electronically to test the sensors. The LLC commands a high voltage be added (AND gate) to the Pressure circuit to simulate a high input pressure. The LLS then "looks" at those pressures to see 1. if they are greater than a fixed value and 2. that PA and PV are within a certain percentage of each other. Since this is an internal test (not like the Version 9 which uses actual pressures), your problem may actually be your LLS or LLC board. Remember, the LLC controlls the machine but is all digital. The LLS is the Supervisor (monitoring the controller) but it also does ALL the Analog to Digital conversions, i.e., a pressure sensor output is a voltage that represents a pressure value. that voltage has to be converted into a digital number that the LLC understands. That conversion is performed by the LLS.
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Post by KTS on Apr 1, 2024 17:38:05 GMT
It was the control board once it was changed the blood tests went smoothly.
And I know it's been a while since I asked this question, I only get a couple days a month to do all my work in this clinic so sometimes I can't get back to a trouble machine for several months because of time restraints.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Apr 1, 2024 19:13:33 GMT
<KTS> Thanks for posting your fix.
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