eric
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Posts: 111
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Post by eric on Jan 17, 2024 21:52:08 GMT
I was just wondering how different all the dialysis machines are?
I work on Fresenius machines and have been trained by them.
How much different are the baxter and other manufacturers machines?
I assume they all do pretty much the same thing in the same way but what do they do different or better or worse.
Thanks in advance if you have time to respond.
Eric
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jan 17, 2024 22:28:20 GMT
They all do the same thing only in that they are all 3-stream machines.
Fresenius and Baxter both use antiquated pumps. Fresenius with their volumetric springs and poppets and Baxter with their peristaltic pumps. At least Baxter's pumps are servo-controlled.
Braun uses servo-controlled ceramic piston pumps. These are not prone to the problems of acid/bicarb loop pressures like the Fresenius machines.
Braun injects the bicarb first instead of the acid. Why? I have no idea but it works. The conductivity is rock steady.
The blood pressure module of the newer Braun machines take the BP as its pumping up and only goes as high as its needed. Our patients love this!
Most components are mounted on sliding drawers making service much easier.
PM's are a breeze. 5-6 inline filters to change, a few o-rings and verifications (not calibrations) and that's about it. No pumps to rebuild! Oh, and the PM is every 24 months!
You would be hard pressed to find a company (dialysis or otherwise) with better tech support.
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Post by dave74 on Jan 17, 2024 23:21:21 GMT
I used to work on Cobe/Gambro C3 machines
I think the C3s were overengineered. They had float switches to monitor the amount of bleach or Actril being drawn in. The acid and bicarb pumps were servo-controlled. The first versions of the machines had the power supply at the bottom. It made sense from distributing weight, but many times a water leak would run into the power supply. I think the balance chamber membranes had to be changed every 4,000 hours until Cobe changed to a different material for the membranes.
When I looked at the hydraulics of Fresenius machines, I thought it should be in a dialysis museum. Fresenius was way late to the game with their bibag.
I think Cobe/Gambro had better service manuals. The manuals would list the problem, and then state the most likely cause, second most likely, down to the possible but not likely. When I first saw the Fresenius manual with all the back and forth in troubleshooting flow errors, I felt like throwing it out the window.
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eric
Full Member
Posts: 111
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Post by eric on Jan 18, 2024 22:29:33 GMT
Thank you for your reply's
So i am not sure what the market share of each are. It seems that the upfront cost of fresenius is cheaper perhaps than the others. I dont know if that is true. But it also seems that they have the most problems.
Is that a correct statement?
Eric
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jan 19, 2024 0:03:43 GMT
I don't know market share either but Braun is selling a LOT of machines, especially to Davita. As far as purchase price....I know 16 years ago, Braun's price was $800 lower than Fresenius quoted us for K machines. The price we pay for Brauns now is only $700 more than it was back then.
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Post by olddonkey on Jan 23, 2024 16:15:21 GMT
First off, I'm an old but new member to this discussion forum, so please forgive me if this reply to dave74 is shown incorrectly, I'm just learning how to drive this DDForum! All that said, I felt I had to reply to dave74 response as I thought I was the only person who felt the frustration and anguish regarding the F2008T, my background is a Biomed Tech, worked at several hospitals over the years and as well as a wide variety of Hospital equipment i have worked on many Dialysis machines, Monitral's, C3's, AK100's, 200's, Phoenixes, portable & Fixed RO's and by far the 2008T is the worse to work on...practically every component you need to remove, replace, test is buried behind tubing, wires and a lot of foul language!......oh and the manuals are more useful as door wedges, so I can push the 4 wheeled little menace into the workshop! I still feel like throwing them all out of the window and from a great height!...thank you dave74 I also share your pain   |
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