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Post by jadeddialysisbiomed on Jan 31, 2024 8:50:55 GMT
I have questions!
If you have some portable ROs failing for low rejection rate and high conductivity with recent or new membranes, and others performing very well from the same water source, would you say it's the incoming water quality alone? Or would you swap the membrane each time if that's what resolved it? This is after high/low cleaning, carbon blocks etc.
What else could be considered?
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jan 31, 2024 9:49:34 GMT
Low rejection and high conductivity are classic symptoms of a damaged membrane OR, since the membranes are relatively new, it's very likely an o-ring/seal. If your product water production is low, that could indicate that the membrane is clogged and may benefit from a cleaning. That said, our experience is that doing a cleaning for low production really doesn't do much good. Doing frequent scheduled cleanings may keep production up but I feel it shortens the life of the membrane.
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Post by jadeddialysisbiomed on Jan 31, 2024 10:37:23 GMT
Thanks Chuck. Exactly what I thought too, and yes cleaning has never helped. We are seeing membranes from the vendor last less than a year, sometimes they are basically RGAd back after we install them as a complete housing (meaning we don't replace the seals ourselves). A few are great and last years, but lately it's been overall poor quality. I believe there's either a manufacturing defect or as was accidentally said from the vendor once they actually take apart and inspect each membrane before adding the seals and shipping to the customer which seems ludicrous to me. Is it possible to order membranes directly from the manufacturer of the membranes (not the equipment) or find an alternate? No experience outside of dealing with the vendor.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jan 31, 2024 11:32:40 GMT
We have chemically disinfected WRO's now and just replaced our first membrane on one of them. It came as a whole assembly with the housing. The old one was discarded before I could take it apart and see about an alternative.
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Post by jadeddialysisbiomed on Jan 31, 2024 11:45:21 GMT
Is there any indication in your experience that heat disinfections can foul a membrane more quickly than chemical regimen? Why do you choose to use chemical over heat disinfections, assuming you have the capability? Or are they just not heat rated machines to begin with?
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jan 31, 2024 12:02:14 GMT
This is just theory but....Disinfecting with PAA (Minncare, MicroX, Peracidin, etc.) are acidic so they may be doing some membrane cleaning as well as disinfecting. With heat disinfection you don't get that. Again, this is just my theory, I have not seen anything written about it.
In the hospitals that we are contracted in to, there isn't the room or utilities (water, drain, electric) to have all of the portables connected.
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Post by jadeddialysisbiomed on Jan 31, 2024 12:15:27 GMT
Hmmm perhaps we should trial once a month Minncare to see if we see any improvement, on top of our weekly heats. I still think the membrane issue is related to as discussed membrane quality like damage or pinholes, or bypass with the seals. But willing to try anything, perhaps some will improve. Also, we had an improvised filter for loose carbon on the 300H machines to the inlet of the RO unit from the GAC. There is no such thing currently on our EONs and have seen basically membranes go out after a carbon block change even with excessive flushing/outgassing. So I don't know if loose carbon is getting through to the membrane and causing damage.
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 227
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Post by joey on Jan 31, 2024 17:53:41 GMT
If you think loose carbon is getting through and fouling your membranes, have you tried to soak and rinse them before installing them ? Also after you change them do you run them for a few hours to normalize the pH and hopefully bring the conductivity back to "normal"
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Post by jadeddialysisbiomed on Feb 1, 2024 13:22:48 GMT
Yes we rinse them for at least half hour then soak/outgas sometimes overnight and rinse some more. Then hook back up to the RO.
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