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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 10, 2024 21:38:00 GMT
![8-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/nerd.png) "The modified gear pumps are compatible with variants from the former supplier without restrictions. However, we recommend to use only gear pumps from the same supplier for FPE / FPA position."
Like I said above, a zero hours pump with a 20k hours pump working a BC is not being smart.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 10, 2024 22:01:00 GMT
It appears that the document is not on the US Service Portal though it is on the German Portal. However, It can be sent to you.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 11, 2024 9:12:23 GMT
<ATTENTION> Technical Information TI 2024/06 Modification of Gear Pumps, has just been placed onto the service portal. This TI discusses the replacement of the new gear pumps in the older machines (both Dialog+ and Dialog IQ ®). I highly recommend you read part one completely and fully understand the nuance of the wording therein. There is no longer a mandatory compliance. But understand this. You have a machine with 20,000 hours and determine FPE is bad. So you put in a new FPE. Now you have a Balance Chamber with one pump with zero hours and another with 20,000 hours. is that efficient, balanced, going to last? I think not. Good for the patient? Probably it will be okay, but probably always includes a bit of doubt. And doubt can be problematic. How is mixing an old pump with a new pump any different now than it was before? If your point is that the old pump will likely fail before the new one does, that has always been the case hasn't it?
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 11, 2024 14:38:57 GMT
<Chuck> When they first released the new pumps, they were hesitant to "mix" old and new with the Balance Chamber (BC) because that is an important part of the UF removal system. If you have been paying attention to the recent design changes of the BC, they have a new BC and new Coils that are designed to reduce the inter-spacial O-ring area to reduce fluid losses which counts against UF.They were very concerned about the difference affecting the BC's in all versions. After further testing, and before the TI was released, they determined that it was compatible, but they still cautioned about mixing old with new.
As to installing a new pump with an old pump in machines (prior to these new, smaller pumps arrival), the same situation arose, but people did not concern themselves with the consequences of their action or inaction. They ran the BC with one new pump and one old pump. They usually did not have any concerns about the inefficiency of the older pump moving the membranes. This often lead to a switching delay, with a quad of valves switching first then a second quad switching next due to the action of the weaker pump. Not very balanced.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 11, 2024 15:39:13 GMT
Maybe I'm missing something....Prior to theses new pumps it was ok to mix a 20K hour pump with a 0 hour one without a concern of not being balanced and it was done regularly. A pump pumping XXX ml/min at XX mmHg is the same volume and pressure regardless of how many hours. If one pump or the other isn't pumping correctly, the machine will be screaming! Unless you have a better, more convincing way of explaining why this is an issue, its very insulting and offensive to play the "patient safety" card to try to convince people of your opinion.
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 11, 2024 16:10:58 GMT
<Chuck> Wrong. There always should have been a concern of mixing old and new, due to the in-balanced action of the BC. A knowledgeable technician could see that the BC was not functioning properly and should have replaced the other pump, too. Common sense comes into play here, but too often, they want to fix the problem and get the machine back out onto the floor. A new pump will move water more efficiently than an old pump. By not replacing it, they are only delaying the inevitable. The new service manual now has a chart that identifies the expected lifetime of a gear pump (EP is 13,500 hrs; FPE/FPA is 18,000 hrs). That is not a recommended exchange point, that is a "evaluate the efficiency and operation" and after that time; monitor it for weakness. E.g., monitor the output flow with a flow meter. If it is starting to weaken, exchanging it is being proactive to prevent a failure later on. Remember, a PM means preventative maintenance. Catching those conditions and correcting them before a major problem occurs.
Not trying to be insulting and offensive. There is an unseen unknown, and that is UF removal. As I said earlier, changes have been made to the BC to reduce or eliminate even minor (micro liters) losses in the BC to make it as accurate as possible. Valves that close late can and do cause 'hidden' losses in the BC. Over a 4 hour treatment, these losses can add up. You don't see that in the back room in a 15 minute mock.
Lastly, it isn't my opinion, this is what I was taught by a German Trainer, as they have several extensive BC mock ups for testing and evaluations. I think they know better than me.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 11, 2024 17:04:06 GMT
I'm not convinced. If there were a flow imbalance causing the membranes to reach EOS out of sync and switching valves, wouldn't the machine be alarming? I queried our database back till 2018 and found that out of 158 machines, we replaced 5 FPE pumps, 3 in V8 machines and 2 in V9's. We only replaced 1 FPA that was in a different V9 machine than the 2 that got FPE's. The last 24 of our V8's were just retired last September but all V9's are still chugging along. If there was a problem due to weak pumps causing an imbalance I think it would have been evident by now.
I'm not saying that "micro" losses aren't occuring but if they are, its evidently not appreciable or staff (and patients) would complain about it (loudly).
Also, if the concern was that great, why would Germany backpeddle?
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 12, 2024 18:12:30 GMT
It is funny that you posted that statement, Chuck. Why would you have access to the German Portal? Well, there is a reason. The US Service Portal will soon be going away. There will only be one Portal in the near future.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 12, 2024 18:53:48 GMT
I don't have access to it but have long known that it exists and documents are posted there long before they are on the US portal. ![]() Attachments:![](//storage.proboards.com/7226994/thumbnailer/xWoSCJBbBwyCurvSGNMf.png)
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Post by SrCusEngr on Jun 12, 2024 19:38:33 GMT
Soon, everyone will.
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Post by joey on Aug 9, 2024 16:57:49 GMT
<ATTENTION> Technical Information TI 2024/06 Modification of Gear Pumps, has just been placed onto the service portal. This TI discusses the replacement of the new gear pumps in the older machines (both Dialog+ and Dialog IQ ®). I highly recommend you read part one completely and fully understand the nuance of the wording therein. There is no longer a mandatory compliance. But understand this. You have a machine with 20,000 hours and determine FPE is bad. So you put in a new FPE. Now you have a Balance Chamber with one pump with zero hours and another with 20,000 hours. is that efficient, balanced, going to last? I think not. Good for the patient? Probably it will be okay, but probably always includes a bit of doubt. And doubt can be problematic. I don't see it. check your email
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