eric
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Posts: 109
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Post by eric on Jun 6, 2022 14:48:08 GMT
We are looking at building a new unit and I wanted some expert opinions (that'll be you all)
We currently run a Biolab 4400M (4 membrane) RO at our unit.
I clean and disinfect once a month. Our cultures for RO and machines are good for the last 15 years weve been running with the current scheduled cleanings.
Manager wants to look at all options and the heat disinfect option has been brought up in discussion.
Is it worth the look or is conventional a better choice?
What do you use and why do you like or dislike?
Thank you in advance for your time and opinions.
Eric
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 6, 2022 21:53:58 GMT
We have 5 of the 4400M's and they have been great to us. The only problems have been that we needed to replace 3 of the inlet temp/conductivity probes.
That said, if I was building a new facility I would give the Braun AquaBoss serious consideration. It's pricey and I'm not going to even pretend to understand the beancounter side of it but, supposedly it pays for itself in a few years.
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joey
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Posts: 226
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Post by joey on Jun 7, 2022 12:25:07 GMT
We have 5 of the 4400M's and they have been great to us. The only problems have been that we needed to replace 3 of the inlet temp/conductivity probes. That said, if I was building a new facility I would give the Braun AquaBoss serious consideration. It's pricey and I'm not going to even pretend to understand the beancounter side of it but, supposedly it pays for itself in a few years. The Bbraun AquaBoss sure looks nice and sounds great. The issue we had was it was so much more than the Ameriwater system we purchased that it was just an impossible ask. I'm sure the savings comes from the recovery and we recover a lot of water because our feed is really good as it is. In the "bean counter" area I would love to know how often they recommend you to heat disinfect the system, the loop, and how much water it uses to complete it. The energy/water usage is definitely a factor. We used to have a heat disinfect system through US Filter and we ran it once a month and it heated for a total of 6 hours and then used a ton of water to flush out the system and cool it down. |
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Post by Admin on Jun 7, 2022 13:02:08 GMT
The recommendation is up to the clinics. It has an automated feature that will disinfect the loop at a day you choose, and a time you choose. You can also choose to add the RO or not. They are two separate panels. 95% of the customer base use it weekly and add the RO for simplicity. The heat system is an option as well. You don't HAVE to get it  |
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 226
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Post by joey on Jun 7, 2022 14:08:14 GMT
We are looking at building a new unit and I wanted some expert opinions (that'll be you all) We currently run a Biolab 4400M (4 membrane) RO at our unit. I clean and disinfect once a month. Our cultures for RO and machines are good for the last 15 years weve been running with the current scheduled cleanings. Manager wants to look at all options and the heat disinfect option has been brought up in discussion. Is it worth the look or is conventional a better choice? What do you use and why do you like or dislike? Thank you in advance for your time and opinions. EricWe purchased the Ameriwater MROZ and are really happy with it. We have had it a little over a year now and had no issues except for a funky ground wire on the display that was causing a higher than normal product cond. reading. Our vendor came right out and fixed it. |
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 226
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Post by joey on Jun 7, 2022 17:22:23 GMT
We are looking at building a new unit and I wanted some expert opinions (that'll be you all) We currently run a Biolab 4400M (4 membrane) RO at our unit. I clean and disinfect once a month. Our cultures for RO and machines are good for the last 15 years weve been running with the current scheduled cleanings. Manager wants to look at all options and the heat disinfect option has been brought up in discussion. Is it worth the look or is conventional a better choice? What do you use and why do you like or dislike? Thank you in advance for your time and opinions. Eric Also when you build a new unit I would install those plastic panel walls in the treatment room that come off easily so when you spring a leak it does not ruin the drywall and you can actually get at the issue to fix it. I haven't done heat in awhile( we do Ozone now) but it seemed to work well until it stopped working all together and you didn't have to worry about residual chemicals. I am just not sure if heat can get rid of biofilm if it gets established. I'm sure there are people on here that can give their input on that. The Ameriwater system also has a PT401 injector instead of a conventional water softener which takes up less space and you only have to keep the fluid level up, no more dealing with bags of salt.
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Post by qman213 on Jun 13, 2022 16:25:30 GMT
I know they are expensive, but the Aquaboss is the way to go. Just my opinion.
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eric
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Post by eric on Jun 14, 2022 14:09:09 GMT
I know they are expensive, but the Aquaboss is the way to go. Just my opinion. Can you give me some details as to why? Not doubting, just dont have any experience with them. |
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Post by gfreely on Jun 14, 2022 17:43:22 GMT
A few years back I might have recommended the CWP...Their tech support has still been awesome when necessary, but their parts are a bit expensive (if you can get them in).
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Post by qman213 on Jun 21, 2022 17:06:37 GMT
I know they are expensive, but the Aquaboss is the way to go. Just my opinion. Can you give me some details as to why? Not doubting, just dont have any experience with them. I'm truly not trying to sound like a BBraun salesman. These are a few of the things I like about it. 1. We have BBraun machines as well. I like that we have the RO programmed to turn on automatically in the morning, followed by all of the machines turning on automatically approximately 20 minutes later. Everything is running when the staff arrive. The RO is also programmed to shut down at a certain time in the evening. 2. The staff hardly touch it. They take the monthly environmental samples and log the disinfections. That's it. 3. It disinfects with heat. No more expensive Minncare and test strips. You can disinfect it with Minncare if you wish. Even doing that is super easy and as simple as pushing a few buttons. 4. We heat disinfect the loop weekly and the RO monthly. We haven't had any LAL or Colony Count issues. 5. The loop is insulated PEX. The secondary ring (two small tubes going to each dialysis machine) has constant flow, even when the dialysis machine is off. This makes it a "No Dead Space" system. 6. The RO machine has redundant features/components. It also has an "Emergency Mode". Should something happen to the RO, and if you have good feedwater and electricity, with the help of BBraun Tech Support, you will be able to make RO water one way or another. 7. It has leak detection and will shut down if it's thinks there is a leak. I have had this happen a few times, and every time it has been caused by a PCT not putting a dialysis machine into citric thermal so it would shut down automatically. When the RO shuts down at the programmed time, it senses pressure drop in the loop, and shuts the system down. 8. If you purchase the Vision software, it will constantly monitor the RO machine and the HRS (Hot Rinse System). It will even send you and email if an alarm occurs. 9. I am required to do annual PM's on the Aquaboss systems. I had to attend a class for that. Every time I am in a facility that has one, I look it over closely for any leaks and abnormalities. I just haven't had any major issues....yet. We have three Aquaboss systems. I have had a few minor issues, but with the help of a certain BBraun Tech Support Guru, I was able to get those issues resolved quickly. |
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Post by Admin on Jun 22, 2022 11:18:59 GMT
That specific Guru is pretty epic. There's lots of buzz about that guy.
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 22, 2022 11:35:12 GMT
That specific Guru is pretty epic. There's lots of buzz about that guy. Like a pesky mosquito buzzing around your ear?  |
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Post by Admin on Jun 22, 2022 11:50:28 GMT
HAHAHAHA! |
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Jun 22, 2022 12:07:36 GMT
Can you give me some details as to why? Not doubting, just dont have any experience with them. I'm truly not trying to sound like a BBraun salesman. These are a few of the things I like about it. 1. We have BBraun machines as well. I like that we have the RO programmed to turn on automatically in the morning, followed by all of the machines turning on automatically approximately 20 minutes later. Everything is running when the staff arrive. The RO is also programmed to shut down at a certain time in the evening. 2. The staff hardly touch it. They take the monthly environmental samples and log the disinfections. That's it. 3. It disinfects with heat. No more expensive Minncare and test strips. You can disinfect it with Minncare if you wish. Even doing that is super easy and as simple as pushing a few buttons. 4. We heat disinfect the loop weekly and the RO monthly. We haven't had any LAL or Colony Count issues. 5. The loop is insulated PEX. The secondary ring (two small tubes going to each dialysis machine) has constant flow, even when the dialysis machine is off. This makes it a "No Dead Space" system. 6. The RO machine has redundant features/components. It also has an "Emergency Mode". Should something happen to the RO, and if you have good feedwater and electricity, with the help of BBraun Tech Support, you will be able to make RO water one way or another. 7. It has leak detection and will shut down if it's thinks there is a leak. I have had this happen a few times, and every time it has been caused by a PCT not putting a dialysis machine into citric thermal so it would shut down automatically. When the RO shuts down at the programmed time, it senses pressure drop in the loop, and shuts the system down. 8. If you purchase the Vision software, it will constantly monitor the RO machine and the HRS (Hot Rinse System). It will even send you and email if an alarm occurs. 9. I am required to do annual PM's on the Aquaboss systems. I had to attend a class for that. Every time I am in a facility that has one, I look it over closely for any leaks and abnormalities. I just haven't had any major issues....yet. We have three Aquaboss systems. I have had a few minor issues, but with the help of a certain BBraun Tech Support Guru, I was able to get those issues resolved quickly. I've been accused of being on the Braun payroll for the way I tout the Dialogs as being so superior. When your beliefs about a product are factual and not just lip-service, it's good for everyone to spread the word. If someone has a superior product and people start buying it instead, it forces competitors to improve their product. Now that Braun is taking a huge bite out of the Fresenius machine pie, they will probably actually improve their machine instead of just putting perfume on the skunk. Then again, they may be content just to supply machines to their own clinics. |
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joey
Full Member
Posts: 226
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Post by joey on Jun 22, 2022 13:15:06 GMT
I'm truly not trying to sound like a BBraun salesman. These are a few of the things I like about it. 1. We have BBraun machines as well. I like that we have the RO programmed to turn on automatically in the morning, followed by all of the machines turning on automatically approximately 20 minutes later. Everything is running when the staff arrive. The RO is also programmed to shut down at a certain time in the evening. 2. The staff hardly touch it. They take the monthly environmental samples and log the disinfections. That's it. 3. It disinfects with heat. No more expensive Minncare and test strips. You can disinfect it with Minncare if you wish. Even doing that is super easy and as simple as pushing a few buttons. 4. We heat disinfect the loop weekly and the RO monthly. We haven't had any LAL or Colony Count issues. 5. The loop is insulated PEX. The secondary ring (two small tubes going to each dialysis machine) has constant flow, even when the dialysis machine is off. This makes it a "No Dead Space" system. 6. The RO machine has redundant features/components. It also has an "Emergency Mode". Should something happen to the RO, and if you have good feedwater and electricity, with the help of BBraun Tech Support, you will be able to make RO water one way or another. 7. It has leak detection and will shut down if it's thinks there is a leak. I have had this happen a few times, and every time it has been caused by a PCT not putting a dialysis machine into citric thermal so it would shut down automatically. When the RO shuts down at the programmed time, it senses pressure drop in the loop, and shuts the system down. 8. If you purchase the Vision software, it will constantly monitor the RO machine and the HRS (Hot Rinse System). It will even send you and email if an alarm occurs. 9. I am required to do annual PM's on the Aquaboss systems. I had to attend a class for that. Every time I am in a facility that has one, I look it over closely for any leaks and abnormalities. I just haven't had any major issues....yet. We have three Aquaboss systems. I have had a few minor issues, but with the help of a certain BBraun Tech Support Guru, I was able to get those issues resolved quickly. I've been accused of being on the Braun payroll for the way I tout the Dialogs as being so superior. When your beliefs about a product are factual and not just lip-service, it's good for everyone to spread the word. If someone has a superior product and people start buying it instead, it forces competitors to improve their product. Now that Braun is taking a huge bite out of the Fresenius machine pie, they will probably actually improve their machine instead of just putting perfume on the skunk. Then again, they may be content just to supply machines to their own clinics. Yeah they will probably use it as a reason to not give raises to their lowest paid employees and raise prices on their crappy dialyzers. |
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