Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 16:55:57 GMT
We have Fresenius dialysis machines and Mar Cor portable RO machines. Marcor IFU say disinfect with Minncare HD and flush through line between RO and Machine by pulling Minncare in the machine with a rinse. The problem is the Fresenius clinical rep says never use Minncare in dialysis machine because will damage machine. So we are left with the problem of not being able to disinfect the line between RO and machine. Does anyone have this issue and what do you do?
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Post by gfreely on Nov 17, 2022 19:06:34 GMT
That's odd that a Big F rep would say that. I was told to disinfect the inlet lines when disinfecting the loop (with Minncare, no less) ... BY Freseniuss. And although it doesn't give a chem-specific advisory one way or the other, the Operators Manual says the same thing.
I still treat the machines like a portable RO in regards to rebounding though. Not sure if it is warranted or not, but a few extra minutes during a disinfect is cheap insurance IMO.
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cane
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Post by cane on Nov 17, 2022 19:13:03 GMT
I'd ask where the Fresenius rep got their information and not take their word as gospel. The only issue I see is that the current T machine operator's manual lists Renalin 100 as the peracetic acid chemical you'll check for residual post disinfect. Minncare is just another version of a peracetic acid, but with Fresenius specifically using a brand name in "Renalin" they may say you're using a chemical that is not approved.
My guess is Fresenius has some business dealings with Medivators and that is why they list the brand name and don't just say "check for residual PAA according to manufacturer's guidelines". It's semantics because Renalin and Minncare are nearly identical chemicals, but it does leave room for someone to make it more confusing than necessary. I am 1000% sure many clinics disinfect their loop with Minncare + Fresenius machines and have zero problems.
It's shame companies try to lock you into one specific brand based on who that company is in bed with, but welcome to capitalism.
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joey
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Post by joey on Nov 17, 2022 22:22:29 GMT
And don't forget about Peracidin
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Nov 17, 2022 22:36:03 GMT
And Micro X
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 23:10:59 GMT
thank you so much I may just be getting hoodwinked by the Fresenius rep!
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Post by dave74 on Nov 19, 2022 13:53:54 GMT
I am not aware of any AAMI standards that mention a brand name. In fact, AAMI tries hard to avoid being too prescriptive and frequently uses terms such as follow manufacturer's instructions for use.
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Post by stuff on Nov 22, 2022 14:00:50 GMT
I just want to add Minncare HD... the HD part stands for Hemo Dialysis. They went the extra bit to get certified saying it can be used in hemo dialysis. Micro X is stronger in the peroxide department though. Micro X specifically says for reprocessing dialyzers only right on the label. Have I used it to disinfect? yes. This could be what your rep is eluding to.
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Post by Links on Nov 23, 2022 12:05:10 GMT
I am not aware of any AAMI standards that mention a brand name. In fact, AAMI tries hard to avoid being too prescriptive and frequently uses terms such as follow manufacturer's instructions for use. That’s exactly the problem, they defer to manufacturer IFUs. So if the manual doesn’t specifically say “Minncare” you are using a product that is not approved. |
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Post by Chuck Weddle on Nov 23, 2022 13:36:27 GMT
I am not aware of any AAMI standards that mention a brand name. In fact, AAMI tries hard to avoid being too prescriptive and frequently uses terms such as follow manufacturer's instructions for use. That’s exactly the problem, they defer to manufacturer IFUs. So if the manual doesn’t specifically say “Minncare” you are using a product that is not approved. Not true! Minntech tried that with Renalin and the Renatron. It didn't fly. |
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Post by dave74 on Nov 23, 2022 16:02:33 GMT
I remember one time the Minntech sales rep came by and asked what we were using to disinfect the RO membranes. I told him we used peracidin. He told me that if the state surveyors came through, we could be dinged because peracidin was specifically marketed as a dialyzer reprocessing concentrate and we were using it on ROs. We did change to Minncare.
I noticed the Renalin 100 is marketed for use in dialyzer reprocessing.
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Post by qman213 on Nov 28, 2022 19:10:45 GMT
I remember one time the Minntech sales rep came by and asked what we were using to disinfect the RO membranes. I told him we used peracidin. He told me that if the state surveyors came through, we could be dinged because peracidin was specifically marketed as a dialyzer reprocessing concentrate and we were using it on ROs. We did change to Minncare. I noticed the Renalin 100 is marketed for use in dialyzer reprocessing. They now make Peracidin RO for the RO membranes. We use a little of it. The surveyors have never questioned it. |
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Post by bcjammerx on Dec 1, 2022 3:37:35 GMT
We have Fresenius dialysis machines and Mar Cor portable RO machines. Marcor IFU say disinfect with Minncare HD and flush through line between RO and Machine by pulling Minncare in the machine with a rinse. The problem is the Fresenius clinical rep says never use Minncare in dialysis machine because will damage machine. So we are left with the problem of not being able to disinfect the line between RO and machine. Does anyone have this issue and what do you do? Our manuals say minncare, not sure if they mention Peracidin...course that's just minncare with paracetic acid added. But the wro300 even has the chemical clean "minncare" specifically in the menu...again, not sure about Peracidin.
When I worked for a company that used f's, we also used marcor and ameriwater ro's. We also used minncare. However, we did not run it through the intake line until the ro waste was turning the test strip LIGHT blue (dark blue first of course), THEN we would...basically it was just enough time to see the strip was light blue, get the machine into rinse, and by that time the ro waste line was running almost totally clear. we verified that the machine waste line was light blue on the test strip or it didn't work.
then we kept rinsing both until both the ro waste line and the machine waste line both read clear.
we never ran the machine with a dark blue strip on the ro though. these f machines did acid and heat disinfect via staff daily, then later we switched to citric acid and heat. we never had issues.
currently I use bbrauns and marcor and ameriwater ro's. we use minncare on them but we never let that run through the bbrauns. those are heat and citric acid disinfected daily. mine don't have the extra uf filter on the back. in all honesty the intake line never gets disinfected. we never have bad draws on our machines *shrug
did the rep give you a suggestion for disinfecting the intake line?
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cane
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Post by cane on Dec 20, 2022 17:18:33 GMT
There is not problem disinfecting a Braun machine inlet line with Minncare. There is a problem with not disinfecting your dialysis machine inlet line, as this is not optional. Sad thing is most inspectors, especially in a hospital setting, don't know enough to make sure that is being done. Lab results being WNL won't matter if you ever get an inspector smart enough to inquire.
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